tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6494242281396312957.post716723785133359020..comments2024-02-23T18:09:21.379-05:00Comments on Solving the JonBenet Ramsey Case: The Broken Window Redux: Part 3DocGhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17359004200002936544noreply@blogger.comBlogger53125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6494242281396312957.post-26948500171973995892017-03-27T12:31:00.395-04:002017-03-27T12:31:00.395-04:00How would John have been able to *count* on that? ...How would John have been able to *count* on that? If he had hidden JonBenet's body in the basement, there is no way he would have wanted Patsy anywhere *near* the basement. He's not going to bring her down there to show her the broken window that he supposedly already knows is not going to fool the police.John I.https://www.blogger.com/profile/10042984817701080159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6494242281396312957.post-68937771565990912202017-03-27T12:25:08.459-04:002017-03-27T12:25:08.459-04:00I think Burke was truthfully reporting on an earli...I think Burke was truthfully reporting on an earlier break-in. So was Patsy. John still could be lying about or embellishing the details, but I think there had to have been some kind of earlier break-in.John I.https://www.blogger.com/profile/10042984817701080159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6494242281396312957.post-42265872286070764852017-03-27T12:18:07.511-04:002017-03-27T12:18:07.511-04:00I can think of another explanation. The broken wi...I can think of another explanation. The broken window wasn't staging at all, and it was just fortuitous for the stager that it happened to be broken. Assuming that *any* staging was done, of course.John I.https://www.blogger.com/profile/10042984817701080159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6494242281396312957.post-47885287873029998372017-03-27T12:13:58.519-04:002017-03-27T12:13:58.519-04:00Also do we know if the police ever checked the pip...Also do we know if the police ever checked the pipes? That would seem like an obvious thing to do.John I.https://www.blogger.com/profile/10042984817701080159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6494242281396312957.post-6171137578551127472017-03-27T11:56:52.110-04:002017-03-27T11:56:52.110-04:00Why is it not likely that Patsy would have viewed ...Why is it not likely that Patsy would have viewed it as a shoddy staging job, but obvious to John that it was?<br /><br />What could have interrupted him before Patsy got up? John was in the shower when Patsy got up, which argues against him being interrupted. He was in the shower, so therefore finished with whatever it was he was going to do. So that would mean he intentionally did a staging job that he *knew* would be obvious staging, or he wouldn't have immediately taken responsibility for the broken window. This makes absolutely no sense.John I.https://www.blogger.com/profile/10042984817701080159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6494242281396312957.post-59816563501649164492017-03-26T10:52:23.046-04:002017-03-26T10:52:23.046-04:00I don't know why you would believe what warm t...I don't know why you would believe what warm things John had to say about Westmoreland and the reason he was there, to offer support only. Isn't it more believable that John would need to get financial ducks in a row for the onslaught that was about to commence? And how convenient that John lost his cell phone during the timeline where it might be advantageous to have it. <br /><br />But I'm dropping the Westmoreland-call thing. My bigger case would be that now that the murder was finished, wouldn't John logically want things to go back to pre-normal - his former status, his big bankroll, and to hold on to the company that was doing so well and that had taken years to build to that point. I'm not confused about that one iota. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03980400715237199782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6494242281396312957.post-48315802676785745312017-03-26T10:17:33.261-04:002017-03-26T10:17:33.261-04:00Patsy told the cops in her second interview that J...Patsy told the cops in her second interview that John had lost his cell phone and didn't replace it until Christmas: fact. There were no cell phone records for that period of time: fact. John Ramsey related the Westmoreland-Fernie-Visa card story in DOI, and said warm, flattering things about his close friend Rod leaving his parents home in Tupelo at Christmas to fly to Boulder to offer support: facts. <br /><br />I don't understand why you insist on complicating things and confusing yourself even further.<br />CChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07982213709500570429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6494242281396312957.post-44118002661928254122017-03-26T09:47:29.222-04:002017-03-26T09:47:29.222-04:00(continued and to tag onto the last sentence) for ...(continued and to tag onto the last sentence) for business reasons related to his MONEY and how to hold onto it once the S storm hit the fan. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03980400715237199782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6494242281396312957.post-40735412468661706232017-03-26T09:44:46.975-04:002017-03-26T09:44:46.975-04:00Although I cannot know the details of why John cal...Although I cannot know the details of why John called his pilot to arrange a flight to Atlanta (since I do not have his cell phone records to know who he called prior to that particular call) or his landline records CC, how else would you explain the sudden arrival in Boulder on Dec. 27 of Rod Westmoreland, his Atlanta-based advisor and VP at Merrill Lynch. John, in D O I, explains the unusual timed visit from Westmoreland as that of "my good friend who helped raise the ransom money" - but wasn't it John Fernie and his bank manager who did that alot earlier Dec. 26, before he "found" the body? Why would Westmoreland need to show up in person if the ransom amount was simply arranged over the phone that morning with a line of credit? And where did you get that that is what Westmoreland did? Even if he did why would he need to appear in person the next day. <br /><br />What is popularly believed, is that J called his pilot to arrange a trip to Atlanta for an urgent meeting because he wanted a get out of town free card, that the "urgent meeting" ploy was because Mason overheard him. <br /><br />It's quite a gap in cell phone records as well too CC. Thomas says he tried to get Sept - Dec. and there were none.<br /><br />Besides the Ramseys being with Westmoreland the day after the murder in Boulder, as soon as they got the green light the Ramseys zipped off to Atlanta and back to Westmoreland. <br /><br />Given that John really knew the body was lying down in the wine cellar room long before 1 p.m., he may have been cotemplating the necessity of getting to Atlanta for many reasons, moving his money around would be one guess, or conferring with executives in the Lockheed Martin group. But I'm not going to pursue it, as I do not have anything to back it up. We just all assume things that are written into the text of this drama that may not be true -that John invented his "meeting" because Mason overheard him and that he was planning on fleeing. He may have urgently wanted to get to Atlanta for business reasons.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03980400715237199782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6494242281396312957.post-57816220461882031272017-03-26T07:57:28.662-04:002017-03-26T07:57:28.662-04:00And Patsy told LE in her second interview that Joh...And Patsy told LE in her second interview that John had lost his cell phone and didn't replace it until Christmas, when she received one as well, which probably explains the gap in the cell phone records.CChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07982213709500570429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6494242281396312957.post-17877602305512425172017-03-26T07:43:23.440-04:002017-03-26T07:43:23.440-04:00John called Rod Westmoreland, his financial planne...John called Rod Westmoreland, his financial planner, to arrange for a $118K line of credit on his Visa card, which John Fernie then took to a bank and used to get the cash.<br /><br />Makes no sense that John would want Georgia attorneys for representation and advice on a Colorado criminal matter.<br /><br />You're not getting it, Inq. John invented the important meeting as a face-saving attempt to the cop who overheard him talking on the phone to Mike Archuleta about flying them to Atlanta - fight or flight, and John's first instinct was the latter.CChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07982213709500570429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6494242281396312957.post-89870183570103290982017-03-26T06:51:22.616-04:002017-03-26T06:51:22.616-04:00You have quite an imagination, Mike. But of course...You have quite an imagination, Mike. But of course we have no way of even speculating regarding all those details.<br /><br />As far as what John might have told Patsy when he showed her the window, the response you've concocted is strange indeed:<br /><br />"---"Yes, John, I saw that window yesterday and it wasn't broken. But how come there's no glass on the floor?" Mike G <br /><br />How could John have responded to such a question? I have no idea."<br /><br />If you'd followed my argument you'd realize that glass WOULD have been on the floor. It was cleaned up only AFTER the police were called. You're just as confused as the investigation team. Maybe you should apply for a job with the BPD. :-)<br />DocGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17359004200002936544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6494242281396312957.post-39395865599917232852017-03-26T02:20:13.618-04:002017-03-26T02:20:13.618-04:00I have to admit, I'm confounded too.
"Lo...I have to admit, I'm confounded too.<br /><br />"Look what I found, Patsy. Come down here and see. A broken window with a suitcase under it. Looks like the kidnapper must have entered and left through this window, propping himself up with the suitcase." Doc<br /><br />---"Yes, John, I saw that window yesterday and it wasn't broken. But how come there's no glass on the floor?" Mike G <br /><br />How could John have responded to such a question? I have no idea.<br /><br />The following potential conversation with Patsy makes better sense to me. <br /><br />" Patsy...come down here..."(Patsy comes down to the basement and sees John pointing at the broken window.) <br /><br />"Damn it John, I meant to get that damn thing replaced. Do you think this is how the kidnapper got in and out?"<br /><br />(John pauses and pretends to further investigate) "No...it doesn't make sense...there's still cobwebs in the window frame and the glass has been cleaned up. They must have had a key or got in some other way. Look, Patsy, this stuff matters, but not now. Let's get our daughter back, but in the meantime we should all stay completely out of the house until we get JonBenet back or are forced to call the police...if there's evidence left behind identifying these bastards, I don't want any of us contaminating it. I'm checking us all into a hotel, and you and Burke are staying locked in the room, while I get the money...if the kidnapper is monitoring our every move like he says he is, he'll see us check in and know where to call later today or tomorrow. Or he might intercept me coming out of the bank, if he sees that I'm alone, which is fine with me...I wouldn't want you and Burke there anyway. The bastard didn't tell us he'd hurt JonBenet if we preserved the scene of the crime by getting out of the house...besides, if it's rest he wants me to get, that'll happen better in a hotel than staying here tonight. Tomorrow, you'll stay by the phone in the hotel, while I come back here and wait for the call. I'm going to get some tape recorders for each of us so we can tape our conversations for the police to hear later on. I want these guys caught." <br /><br />John drops off Patsy and Burke at the hotel, then drives to the bank. Like the ransom note said, he gets "contacted" coming out of the bank, finding a note on his windshield. In it, he is told to follow the SUV with dark tinted windows parked just across the street to the place they will be making the exchange. <br /><br />Or perhaps John planned to dump the body later that night during a trip to get some take-out for the family. He may have even planned to convince Patsy of the wisdom to get separate, yet side-by-side rooms, one for her and Burke, the other for him. Ostensibly, Burke would not have to be privy to a frightening call in the middle of the night, or the next morning. In reality, it gives John more autonomous mobility. Whatever...the point is, John's plan to dump the body had a high element of risk regardless of where he spent the night. <br /><br /><br />Mike G<br /><br /><br /><br /> <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6494242281396312957.post-58226164878665789442017-03-26T01:19:30.812-04:002017-03-26T01:19:30.812-04:00Well props to the Von Trapp family! I have always...Well props to the Von Trapp family! I have always been fond of The Lonely Goatherd.<br />https://youtu.be/9vtq9t08ktUdiamondlilnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6494242281396312957.post-69673917303583979582017-03-25T16:42:15.798-04:002017-03-25T16:42:15.798-04:00We all know John found the body alot earlier than ...We all know John found the body alot earlier than 1 p.m. As he sat there brooding about when Arnt and her nonexistent team of fellow investigators were going to perform a search, he had to wait her out in order to be told to search the house one more time, and ultimately "find" her. Once he brought her up what kind of grief did he show? By his own admission he couldn't even scream, or cry. Fleet was more distressed than John. <br /><br />We also have several months of cell phone records, by Thomas's admission, that were curiously absent from record. September-December 1996. If he had a pressing meeting in Atlanta for which he wished to make it out of Boulder, it surely was not scheduled. They were to go to Michigan. <br /><br />He may have wanted to secure representation, immediately. With Atlanta attorneys. He possibly called his financial planner Westmoreland, who curiously showed up in Boulder on the 27th, which is written like a "surprise" visit in Death of Innocence. Or, the emergency meeting may have had to do with executives from Lockheed Martin, as once the news got out that one of their own was part of a murder investigation in the death of their daughter, he may have felt a little nervous over the prospect of being cut from Access Graphics/Lockheed - which is exactly what ultimately happened when they sold six months. later. <br /><br />Yes, that would be the first thing on my bucket list if I was serially molesting my daughter, responsible for her death, had been attempting to cover it up since early the morning before and wanted to keep my job, status, and money.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03980400715237199782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6494242281396312957.post-22375684941857365082017-03-25T13:08:04.402-04:002017-03-25T13:08:04.402-04:00(cont.) "Like sands through the hourglass, so...(cont.) "Like sands through the hourglass, so are the Days of Our Lives." <br /><br />As to one ubiquitous commenter's comments in particular: "Like flies on parchment paper, they don't ever stick." <br /><br />And they are exhausting. I bid you all adieu. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6494242281396312957.post-14435976239148498992017-03-25T12:47:20.050-04:002017-03-25T12:47:20.050-04:00(cont.) Where do you come up with this stuff Inq? ...(cont.) Where do you come up with this stuff Inq? And seriously, even if "it has been suspected (who with any credibility has proffered that excuse?) that John's call to Atlanta and meeting he had to not miss was a damage control meeting with Lockheed Martin," then when was that set up and with whom at Lockheed or Access Graphics that morning, and who initiated the meeting, that is, who ever corroborated that "suspicion?" <br /><br />And really, would that have been the first thing on your bucket list if your daughter were lying dead on the floor under the Christmas tree even if the president of the parent company urged that meeting? Really? And do you really think someone at either company would have been so callous as to ask for such a meeting from a devastated father of a murdered child? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6494242281396312957.post-88701844303575952432017-03-25T12:40:51.797-04:002017-03-25T12:40:51.797-04:00Calls were eventually seized, just not made public...Calls were eventually seized, just not made public and are still not made public. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03980400715237199782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6494242281396312957.post-46619861560982443832017-03-25T12:39:47.357-04:002017-03-25T12:39:47.357-04:00I have a different perspective now on the Patsy li...I have a different perspective now on the Patsy lie/break-in/LHP/glass cleanup memory. That either or both memories were false memories. Think about your self. How frequently when combing the past, have you been convinced of something, even right down to what you were wearing or where you were standing or who you talked to. And, when another person is involved they have a completely different account of events. I say Patsy was told of John's earlier break-in, either because he was legitimately locked out (and didn't break a window) and she also has a memory of she and Linda cleaning up glass a different time, a different event. Patsy then put the two together. We've all done it. Linked together two separate memories and associated them together as being related to one. The stakes would have been very high for her to make that association too, and in her vulnerable position just after her daughter has been murdered, she supplanted two false memories and rolled them into one. Not a lie, as she believed it. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03980400715237199782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6494242281396312957.post-43343132665483844382017-03-25T12:32:35.705-04:002017-03-25T12:32:35.705-04:00(cont.) I should have said "Arndt had him in...(cont.) I should have said "Arndt had him in her sights that first afternoon, as they stood over the victim's body." Ramsey brought the victim upstairs as we all know at about 1:10PM.<br /><br />And the 1:40PM call to the pilot was not the "first" call he had made to the pilot, as he had called his pilot earlier that morning, but it wasn't to hightail it to Atlanta. <br /><br />And in speaking of "Hoffman" I'm obviously talking about Linda Hoffman-Pugh the housekeeper, not Darnay Hoffman the lawyer. <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6494242281396312957.post-52863981524196003112017-03-25T12:28:22.826-04:002017-03-25T12:28:22.826-04:00Since the phone records for Dec. 25 and 26 and pro...Since the phone records for Dec. 25 and 26 and probably 27th were not seized by LE and analyzed, it has been suspected that John's call to Atlanta and meeting he had to not miss was a damage control meeting with Lockheed Martin. Not to flee Boulder with his family or leave the scene of a crime and investigation, although it would have served that purpose as well. He had to massage Lockheed Martin that the investigation into his daughter's death would not damage the company.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03980400715237199782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6494242281396312957.post-15380922484809943562017-03-25T10:45:30.044-04:002017-03-25T10:45:30.044-04:00Ramsey told someone in an interview, and I can'...Ramsey told someone in an interview, and I can't remember whether it was a law enforcement interview or television, probably the latter, that "well the first thing we wondered was how did the intruder get in the house, since the doors were locked?" <br /><br />Someone please tell me how that statement can be reconciled with a guy who on that same day told Fleet and also law enforcement that he himself had gained entry through a basement window in the past. Frankly, an innocent man who had successfully broken into his own home would have told Rick French upon arrival to check that window in the basement even if Ramsey hadn't already been down there and seen the window broken and left open that morning. Again, instead, incredibly to the contrary, his statement paraphrased from above was essentially "we were baffled as to how someone entered." <br /><br />The truth is he didn't want to direct attention to that window at all, because it would direct them to his unfinished amateurish staging. Yes, they were going to see it, but he would look all the more guilty if he directed them to it as the source of entry, much like leading the police toward Patsy instead by handing them her notepad. Instead, he had to be neutral and vague, and use misdirection. It was his only chance.<br /><br />Leaving the suitcase under the window was just a pressure valve release (or maybe he simply didn't want to touch it without gloves on, frankly) which he could either later not mention at all, or call attention to as either a puzzlement to imply an intruder came in through that window, or simply say he "doesn't know if that suitcase had ever been stored there." The suitcase was secondary in other words, and not incriminating of him as part of the obvious window staging at that first point, yet in fact as we now know was used by him later to support the intruder theory once law enforcement choked on seeing through the broken window ruse, helped along by guys like Smit who acted out the window break-in for him. <br /><br />Remember, please, as DocG says so eloquently and in such great logical detail, that once Patsy called 911, Ramsey was in "Hail Mary Pass" mode so there obviously were going to be inconsistencies and questions, but as it has turned out for twenty-plus years, the more questions the better for Ramsey. All he had to do along the way was supply "reasonable doubt" while staying out of jail. That first phone call on December 26th to his pilot at 1:40PM to try and flee was his White Bronco moment, and he should have been questioned as to "what meeting" and with whom and police should have trapped him on that, as nobody would have corroborated a supposed meeting in Atlanta the next day. Seriously? (DocG did police ever question Ramsey more about that meeting, which could only have been planned with the other participants, if true, on the same morning as the "kidnapping" since the pilot was never told about a need to get to Atlanta instead of Charlevoix, Michigan). OMG no wonder Ramsey got bolder by the minute as he got away with more and more things. Arndt had him in her sights that morning as they stood over the victim's body. That was ground zero. <br /><br />Regarding Hoffman's later contradictory testimony about the basement window and "clean-up of the glass" being part of this absurd saga: Ramsey knew that Linda Hoffman was going to be interviewed by the police in the investigation at some point, especially, for pete's sake, since the Ramseys had pointed a finger at her the first day, and therefore he knew she would be asked about the basement window, and he knew exactly what she would say about it, which is indeed what she did in fact truthfully say, which is that the window had never been broken to her knowledge. So rather than be trapped by that he got aggressive and had Patsy include Hoffman in the story as though they wanted Hoffman to corroborate their story. That was simply another defensive tactic, just like the unstaging of the window.<br /><br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6494242281396312957.post-38222513217521755192017-03-25T09:26:26.093-04:002017-03-25T09:26:26.093-04:00Please don't give up DocG. This is my first p...Please don't give up DocG. This is my first post. I have been reading since October, and have to admit that you have convinced me too look at John through a whole new lense... Each post, I become increasingly closer to being convienced he staged this... One question that keeps coming up in my mind is it is not typical for parents who are sexually abusing their children to kill them in fear of being caught.. so, I still need convincing it was him... but I guess as I'm writing this, I'm starting to believe it had to be him because there is no way Burke could've done it...Rubyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11591822691856879543noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6494242281396312957.post-11385197111332051962017-03-25T09:19:11.148-04:002017-03-25T09:19:11.148-04:00And how would you even search for it? :)And how would you even search for it? :)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03980400715237199782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6494242281396312957.post-47711868717108555772017-03-25T05:36:07.231-04:002017-03-25T05:36:07.231-04:00Was it John's excrement that was found in the ...Was it John's excrement that was found in the basement toilet - do we know that? Or don't we know who it belonged to? I'm curious because it's not an answer I can readily find on any website. Thanks. Ms Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15732858990595163048noreply@blogger.com